The Essence of online Sim Racing?

Discussion in 'Chat About Anything In Here' started by Rob Milliken, Sep 15, 2018.


Would you do a FIXED SETUP single series Championship ?

  1. Yes - determine a true driving champion

    12 vote(s)
  2. No - not interested in fixed setup racing

    6 vote(s)
  1. Rob Milliken

    Rob Milliken Administrator Staff Member Donator

    We all have a desire to go fast in cool cars yes? & race against other like minded drivers ? We do !.. And we love to be faster than everyone :D! Todays modern sims offer us a plethora of modern and vintage cars to live out our wildest car dreams with is good for us sim racers !

    I have a thought about all these cool car classes we have .. we do a lot of mixed car series like GT3 , Group C or Multi Class Endurance where some cars have a defined advantage over others makes & manufactures Like the Sauber or Porsche over the Mazda in Group C ectt..... this to me is a different style of on line racing ..Personally I don't think its fair in a on line sim environment when one car is clearly better than another . This is great in real racing and is the core of competition when manufactures compete to flex there muscles against each other ,Its also great to have all the different cars on track together however in on line sim racing, unless thy have a "league addition" of the mod like some rf2 series have where all the cars are tuned the same, we all know what car is better and is probably going to win every time. When the league addition is used this gives the fairness of a single car series & takes away the manufacture domination so this is good for online ! Otherwise it's always going to be lopsided , IRL they do use BOP in certain series to even the out the field & we also have some 'ok' BOP tools for some of these sims but it does not totally equal out the field , still fun but a different type of challenge for these type races …& we do a lot of them ..And they are a lot of fun !

    That said there are other types of sim racing that to me really bring out the competitive nature in all of us in a way that is 10 times more intense and completely even across the board and more than that can determine A true sim driving champion !

    With this type of thinking It should be clear that a Single car series will do a better job of driver vrs driver - mano e' mano or an evenly matched dual to the finish ..
    To take it one step farther a single series FIXED SET championship would undoubtedly produce the best driver in the group .. before you say anything think about it ..
    Forget all the BS , strap yourself into the car with a fixed set , the same set for all with only steer lock and break bias available to tune .. ( Fixed set is tested ,voted on & picked from members entry's )
    Now this to me is the essence of nail biting ONLINE racing .. No fancy proto types , no unfair advantages .. pure driving skill ..
    Of course it would have to be a certain type of car to meet the requirement's but the racing would be pure racing !
    If you look at the numbers from successful series in the past , r2p for example ..there was a reason the single series events were and still are so much more popular Like the formula BMW , megains , clios , & in AC the F3 's and SEAT series are good examples .. these series don't loose as many drivers in the end as most of the multi class stuff does ..
    1. The cars are fun to drive & not to complex .. (Its racing not engineering)
    2. You never have that feeling that "no way I can beat that guy in that Porsche" Your car is exactly the same so your always in it !
    You get the Idea ..:)

    I just putting this out there because its something we used to do and the racing was epic ! Please have a look at the poll , this will determine weather or not we can try a series with this style of racing :D
    Thx !!
  2. Ken Jagger

    Ken Jagger Administrator Staff Member Donator

    I don't recall all these being FIXED SETUP? Single class yes.
  3. Rob Milliken

    Rob Milliken Administrator Staff Member Donator

    No for the most part they were not .. But that's not what I said , they were single series .. we did also do fixed sets with the BMW's Clios & and megains with Tim choosing the sets ! At BROS servers way before r2p , that's we used to do & what I want to do again -fixed set racing ..
    especially if its a pay race or has a cash purse .. You want all contestants to have an equal opportunity to win based on there driving skill alone .. ..
  4. Larry Thomas

    Larry Thomas Pro Driver Donator

    I have not voted as my answer to "Would you do a FIXED SETUP single series Championship ?" is : It depends!
    I personally would prefer single class with "simple" cars : Flat 6; MX5 (which I would have loved to do but was not in my available time spot) URD DTM, Tatuus, US2000, or some of the older cars, etc. etc.
    A fixed setup in my opinion would be more suited to punctual Fun type races.

    Going to get a bit off the track here : Rob, you refer to the Group C series where some cars have a defined advantage over others. I found the group C series interesting because the dominance of one car over another varied according to the track. The fall off in interest was because, this is simply my theory, there are too many series being run at the same time and the drivers who have no chance of being on the championship podium have already changed their priority, in the case of Group C, to the "G.E.A.R. Multiclass Endurance Pack - Studio 397" series. Just my opinion.
  5. Roy Cop

    Roy Cop Pro Driver

    Rob, I agree with the point you are making up to a certain point. To narrow down your point, you want to have races where the best driver (on that day) wins. Great, I'm all for it. However, this being "sim-racing" I do feel that finding a good setup for a certain car on a certain track is an integral part of the sim-racing theme.
    Lets take real racing as an example. Do you think Schumacher would have won 7 F1 championships if he didn't know how to setup his car to his liking? I'm sure that if he had to rely on his engeneers alone he would not have been able to win all 7 of those. Now I'm using Schumi as an example, but there are more examples like him.
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  6. Rob Milliken

    Rob Milliken Administrator Staff Member Donator

    Thanks for the input guys ! Valid points indeed .. The Idea behind this is not the fancy formula cars that need a lot of tweaking but the smaller less powerful cars that don't have or need a lot of set up changes . The GT5 , flat 6 , clios , Ginetta GT's get the idea super cars that need to be tamed … Like Larry said its mostly like a fun run setting but once your behind the wheel banging doors it's ON !
    something like "Wednesday night sprints" Just a little something for drivers that don't have time for all the practice (me the last 7 weeks of work :confused:o_O:D) but want to get some racing in where they instantly have a good chance of competing ..
    Another angle is for new drivers ..we could have a race academe with a season of say Ginetta gt5 then the next step up would be maybe the open wheel f3's or the flat 6 eventually stepping up each series until we get to the cars that need set up work & then they are ready ..

    Just Ideas guys ..:)
  7. Tim Meuris

    Tim Meuris Pro Driver Donator

    I agree with Roy. You can't see simracing apart from setting up a car.
    Creating good setups is something I'm really focussing on lately. I want to understand the car better and I do spend a lot of time finetuning it.
    It really intrigues me learning step by step where the best compromise lies. I rather race once every two weeks with a good setup I created during practise
    than every three evenings doing a halfassed race.
    Just my 2 cents... ;)
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  8. Tim Meuris

    Tim Meuris Pro Driver Donator

    interesting topic though!
  9. Toni Talvitie

    Toni Talvitie Pro Driver Donator

    I would doit if setup fits, usually it wont.
    Mostly not doing it because driving might be a pain to do thus not an enjoyment.
  10. Henri Miettinen

    Henri Miettinen Pro Driver Donator

    Fixed setup is not a problem for me. We could also limit everyone's practice, because I'm so lazy do that :D For example, the track what we drive would be told like an hour before the qual :p
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  11. Ricardo Almeida

    Ricardo Almeida Pro Driver

    I can understand the purpose of a fix setup and when I start sim racing I was looking for fixed setup races thinking that will help me to be faster. Sometimes with good and sometimes (most of the time) with bad results. For me setups are more personal to your needs and your driving style and of course your equipment (RIG). A fix setup most of the time does not work with your needs. That's why I'm running my own setup on the races I do.
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  12. Davide Ricciardi

    Davide Ricciardi Pro Driver Donator

    A true driving champion ( real or virtual ) is supposed to know all the aspects of racing, which includes mechanic, electronic, physics, you name it. Nobody can be a champion without a wide range of knowledge, it is not only the driving but the understanding of all motorsport processes working in synergy. If you wanna be a champion you need to be able to do your setups. On top of that, fixed setups might increase the gap between faster and slower drivers, obtaining the opposite results.
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  13. Didier Coelo

    Didier Coelo Pro Driver

    it means adapting your driving to the car and not adapting the car to your driving, can be interresting and a good experience.
    I often wonder what part of the setup when a driver is 5 seconds faster than me, anyway I think the best drivers will remain so.
    finally, a serie where there is no need to spend hours to settle, just drive.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
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  14. Philipp Pichler

    Philipp Pichler Pro Driver

    I treat every race I drive as a fixed set up race ;)
    Yeah, it depends on the car and the fixed set up. But if you don´t like to work on the set up or have no idea how to fix the problems, this is aswell a enjoyment killer. In the end it is a matter of how serious respectively how much effort you put in.

    It seems hard to imagine that minor changes result in a five second faster car. Anyway for me it seems the races here, which were hold during the week effort less effort/set up work than those which run on the weekends. So there should be something for both groups.
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  15. Steve Olden

    Steve Olden Pro Driver

    I doubt setup alone makes the car 5secs faster..the people who are fast, are fast because of a better driving technique, and gain a little time on every corner entry & exit(and all the way down the followig straight!) with or without setup. Having a setup increases this gain a little (plus adds consistency) which over a lap adds up to some seconds.*
    to make a basic setup you just need to understand whether your car is oversteering or understeering and where in the corner it's happening.
    setup WF.png

    *tho don't take my word for it 'cos I'm slower than everybody.....
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